“The truth is messy. It’s raw and uncomfortable. You can’t blame people for preferring lies.”
–Holly Black, Red Glove
“We will have order,” the President of the General Assembly said, as the side discussion on the floor grew pitched. “We will have order, or we will adjourn.”
“Maybe we should!” the Mandean delegate shouted. “Maybe we should adjourn and tell the world what we have been told!”
“Amadou, sit down!” Filfi Adjaye barked, loud enough that it briefly silenced the cavernous chamber. “That is enough.”
Adjaye was sitting in the seat reserved for Côte d’Ivoire et la Ghana; like Europe, Africa had been granted seats in the General Assembly for all its member states. Generally, that was a good and fair thing, but right now, he really wished Amadou Touré didn’t have a seat on the floor.
Ambassador Bass had broken the news to the General Assembly, and there had been outrage, though perhaps not so much as there would have been had the news not been quietly shared among the leaders of the supranationals. The leaders assembled in the room had wanted time to discuss this among themselves, and Eyrn had politely agreed to leave; she would return when they asked her, though of course, that just meant she had to turn her hologram back on. But while the leaders had begun debating calmly and cautiously, the magnitude of the news had long ago destroyed any semblance of order.
“First Minister, you cannot expect us not to be outraged by this news!”
“I can, given that I told you two days ago what the Ambassador would say,” Adjaye growled in his rumbling basso profundo. “We are in executive session, there are no cameras here, our gool recorders are locked by security code, and none of us is impressed by your melodrama.”
“You must admit, though, Mr. First Minister, it is disconcerting in the extreme,” Esmeé Xylander said, from the seat of The Netherlands. “They view humans as savages, primitive, subhuman. Something to toy with. Can you imagine?”
Adjaye blinked. “Yes, madam president, I believe I can,” he said, his voice dripping with irony.
“Which is why we should not merely accept it,” Rosa Naboa said. “I….”
“Can we have order?” the President of the General Assembly asked.
“Constantin, order’s the last thing we need right now,” Xylander said. “We are all leaders here; just…everyone, try to listen. You were saying, Madam President?”
“Thank you, Esmeé. We have a perspective on this you may not, Madam President. Our peoples do not have to imagine a stronger, more technically advanced people dismissing our humanity – well, our sentience – out of hand. It is a part of our history, one we still deal with hundreds of years later. And it is not one that we should dismiss lightly. I have significant European ancestry, but that is because there are no Inca left.”
“But this is different,” Kavi Gupta said. “With due respect, President Naboa, my people are quite as familiar with colonialism as you, but despite everything, that is not what the Titan Empire is proposing. They could seize Earth tomorrow, we all know that, but they haven’t, and they don’t seem inclined to. I quite agree, we should be concerned for the humans in the Empire, but my first responsibility is to the people of India, and my friends in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, and Bangladesh. There is already unrest in Kashmir. If I go back home and tell them that the aliens hold humans in bondage, it will panic them to no good end. And ours is not the only flashpoint. We have all made great strides in the last two decades; I do not wish to see that undone.”
“We have to tell them eventually, Prime Minister Gupta. The people need to know the truth,” Yu Soo-jin, the Korean president, said.
“They do, but do they need to know right now?” Robyn Martin said. “What can be gained at the moment by sharing this? Kavi’s right, this is going to ignite a firestorm. Two of the most influential internet ministers in my country are proclaiming this the end of the world. There hasn’t been unrest yet…but then, they don’t have anything more than vague suggestions thus far.”
“They’re calling the one with braids Kali,” Gupta said with a grimace. “That’s what triggered the riots. Religious zealots who thought destruction was at hand. God help us if there was actually a reason to think it might be.”
“This is my point,” Martin said. “We need to give our people time to settle down, get used to the idea that we aren’t alone. Then we can talk to them about the serious and grievous wrongs committed by the Empire.”
“Yes, but in the meantime, we should just ignore the humans stuck in there?” Xylander barked.
“Well, so far, you have been, with all due respect, Madam President.”
That silenced the room, a silence that was broken by a slight, amused chuckle from the Chinese premier.
“This is true,” Lǐ Wáng said. “We should perhaps ask the Avalonian Observer what he thinks of the situation in the Empire, as he will know far more than anyone else in this room.”
Darren knew that his outburst was impolitic, but right now wasn’t a moment for diplomacy. Right now was a moment to cut through the bullshit. And that was something Darren could do with skill.
“Are any of you owned?” Darren asked. There was a murmur of no from the assembly. “Well, see, that’s something. I am,” he said, flatly. “I’m owned, officially, by a woman named Aisell Maris. Used to be owned by Ambassador Bass, actually, but…well, it’s a long story. Now, Aisell is a good and decent person who would never use that against me. But doesn’t really matter how nice the person who owns you is, it sure as hell isn’t fun knowing that there’s a registry with your name on it, saying that you’re property, not a person.”
“Exactly my point,” Touré began.
“You don’t know what my point is, Governor-General. I haven’t even started to get to it. Now, like I said, I’m owned by someone, and I sure as hell don’t like it. But thing is, she don’t like it much either. She owns me to keep someone else from owning me, someone who wouldn’t let me live my life freely. She owns me to protect me. Now, that ain’t good. But it ain’t awful, either, because her owning me means that I get to live on Avalon, raise a family, help build a government and a nation.
“My point is, there’s a lot to be mad at the Titans about, if you’re a human in the Empire. But that doesn’t mean they’re totally evil, or that every one of them is evil. Some of ‘em, sure. But not all of them. Not most of them. Most of them are decent, by and large. Clueless, maybe, but not bad.”
“Do you trust that they’ll fix this?” Robyn Martin asked.
“Madam President, I don’t know, to be honest. The people working on it that I know – Loona Armac, I trust. Pryvani Tarsuss I trust even more. But it’s a democracy. It’s messy and screwed up. I don’t count on anything.”
“And what about Ambassador Bass?” Filfi Adjaye asked.
Darren smiled. “First Minister, I have put my life in Eyrn Bass’s hands more than once, and she has never failed me. I trust her more than anyone I’ve ever met, ‘cept maybe my wife. I trust her more than I trust me, and I’m me. I can’t guarantee the government in Tuaut will get things figured out, but I can promise you that Eyrn Bass will be honorable and fair to deal with.”
“What we really need to know, Secretary Xanthopolous,” Rosa Naboa said, “is whether the Titans intend to make us into breeding stock.”
“If meant to do that to Earth, Madam President, they could have at any point in the last six thousand years,” Darren said. “They didn’t. Now, the humans who ended up in the Empire – yeah, they did, and there’s no forgiving that. Maybe accept it and move on if they fix it, but forgive? Forget? Nah, no more than Africa should forget about slavery, or you should forget about Columbus, Madam President. But if you can leave a thing like that aside – and I’m not saying you should – well, they’ve been trying to leave Earth alone since around the time of the Trojan War. My friend, Master Sergeant Ibanez,” Darren said, smiling a bit as he did, “lives on the Imperial Starship Gyfjon; she’s pretty much married to its captain. The Gyfjon’s been patrolling the solar system for hundreds of years, not to keep Earth from doing anything, but to keep anyone out there from doing anything to Earth. And there are creatures who would.”
“The insects?” Boris Yanaev asked.
“That’s them,” Darren said. “Insectoids have tried to take this system three times, and the only reason they haven’t tried more is that the Empire’s kept ‘em out every time. Titans have died to keep Earth from falling. Does that make up for making millions of us in to pets? That’s for a wiser man than me to judge, but it ain’t nothing, either.”
“So we should just trust them to keep doing that? Trust them not to turn on us?” Yanaev asked.
“Mr. President, there’s an old saying – think it’s Russian, come to think of it. ‘Trust, but verify.’”
“Doveryai, no proveryai. Da, Ambassador,” Yanaev said with a tight smile.
“That’s the one. I think you should trust Ambassador Bass, and I think you should trust that they’re trying to change…but I’m not gonna tell you to trust them blindly. Not gonna tell you not to demand they change. And I’m gonna tell you…nothing wrong with working with them and still building up your defenses. We’ve done it on Avalon. And even though we’re not as far along as you are technology-wise, we’ve had success. They’re not invincible. Oh, doubt you could hold out against the Empire, not right now. But that doesn’t mean you couldn’t hold out against some rogue Titans. We have. You can too.”
“Will Avalon be willing to share how you managed that?” Xylander asked, pointedly.
“Madam President, we will be happy to help our fellow humans in matters of self-defense.”
“And will you be telling the Empire that?”
“Don’t imagine I will,” Darren said. “Like I said…this is about helping our fellow humans.”
Xylander smiled. “Perhaps we do not need to share the news about the way humans live in the Empire quite yet. Perhaps we can work with Ambassador Bass to break the news. And if the Empire drags its heels…well, I would feel much better about confronting them when we don’t have to worry about what happens if they pull defenses.”
“I agree. For now,” said Yu Soo-jin. “Secretary Xanthopolous, we look forward to working with your government.”
“The feeling is mutual, Madam President.”
There was quiet for a good long while, before Robyn Martin finally spoke.
“Mr. President,” she said to the chair, “would you please recall the Ambassador from the Titan Empire?”
Two minutes later, Eyrn’s hologram flickered back into existence, human-sized.
“Ambassador Bass,” the African president said, “we are not happy with the way our people are treated in the Empire. Not in the least. We condemn it in the strongest terms.”
“My government understands your objection,” Eyrn said. “And we recognize it is a difficult issue, one that will not be easy to ignore.”
“It will not be ignored, full stop,” Xylander said. “Please let your government know that the governments of Earth are profoundly dissatisfied with the present situation, and that we would urge your government to act with all due haste to rectify the matter, and to free those humans held as property.”
“I will communicate that to them,” Eyrn said, evenly.
“It will be difficult to trust you,” Adjaye said. “You must recognize that; we have every reason to be concerned.”
“I understand your concern. I can assure you that my government has no interest in causing any hardship to Earth,” Eyrn said.
Robyn Martin studied the Titan; she was short and slight at this scale, not intimidating in the least. Martin knew that was intentional, knew that the ambassador did not have to stoop to the human level.
That she did, that she chose to – that told her what she needed to know.
“Ambassador Bass,” Martin said, “I would ask that for one moment, you speak not for your government, but for yourself – and we will not hold your government to what you say. Dr. Bass, what do you think of the present situation?”
Eyrn looked down for a moment. “I don’t know if Secretary Xanthopolous has told you…but when he and I first ended up in the Empire…I was his registered owner.”
Eyrn looked over at Darren, and smiled sadly. This always hurt. It always would.
“I…I told Darren, not long after we’d gotten there…that I felt like a monster. That it disgusted me. I called Archavia a cesspool of injustice, or something to that effect. I wanted to fight everyone I met; I mean that literally, and not just sparring intellectually with them. My father fought for the emancipation of slaves; my grandfather died for that cause. No person should be able to own another. I must officially represent my government’s position…but I am only able to because I believe it will change, some day.”
“And if it does not?” Martin asked.
“If the government of the Empire fails to recognize humans as Class One Sentient Beings – not just here on Earth, but throughout the Empire and wherever we may find you…I will not be able to represent that government. You will be dealing with a different ambassador.”
“And if your government were to decide to start taking more of us from Earth to live as pets?” Xylander asked.
“Madam President, if the Empire was to do something that abhorrent, I would not be referring to it as my government. I’d be doing whatever I could to stop it. And if that meant standing here on Earth, and fighting and dying to stop it….”
“Then you would. And I suspect you would not be the only one,” Lǐ said. “You have already put your life on the line for us once. We may question your government, Dr. Bass, but I do think we can work with you. Ambassador, we wish you to relay to your government what we believe; you may phrase it as you will, you share our opinion on this matter, at least personally. And we will give you time. We will work with you to break the news to our people slowly and carefully, and hopefully, by the time the truth is known in full, it will be a discussion of history, not the present.”
“But the clock is ticking,” Jody White said, “and our patience is not, and cannot be, infinite. If this news were to break suddenly…well, God help us all. Your government needs to act, and the sooner the better.”
“Acting quickly is not the Empire’s strong point,” Eyrn said. “But I agree, Madam Prime Minister. I do.”
“Of course you do,” Martin said. “You may be a bit taller than average, but you’re as much a child of Earth as any of us, Ambassador.”
“Madam President,” Eyrn said, “there is no compliment you could give me that I would treasure more.”
A general thought;
Before this ceremony and an ‘official’ welcoming, shouldn’t there be a plan on HOW to break the news? or at least an outline of a plan? Eyrn has lived as a human for more than half of her adult life so she would know how they think. It could be adjusted on the fly as conditions merit. That would at least make the transition smoother
Formulation of such a plan would not take long. It would be between her, the main earth leaders, Darren and maybe even Pryvani (umm err.. maybe not)
Pryvanni knows better than anyone what NOT to do in this situation.
This would be a pretty good time for a passing mention of the events of Pandemic.
Eyrn sure is winning the trust n the hearts of Earthlings but the news about human status is doomed to be leaked. And the medias (in Earth and in the empire) has differences goals than world leaders’s.
If this news were to break suddenly… From the way things are looking now, I’m afraid that that’s exactly what is going to happen.
I can understand wanting to avoid overwhelming the public by dumping the full truth on them all at once, especially when they’re already reeling from the discovery of an extraterrestrial empire. But the world leaders must let people know the truth sometime soon, because they’ll be lucky if they can maintain the secret just for a couple of weeks. Eventually either someone entrusted with the secret will decide that, ready or not, the public needs to know the truth, a suspicious journalist or somesuch will find out the truth through detectivework and blow the whistle, or somebody speaking in public will accidentally blurt out something that enables the people to work out what’s going on.
We will work with you to break the news to our people slowly and carefully, and hopefully, by the time the truth is known in full, it will be a discussion of history, not the present. I consider myself to be an optimist, but even if Lǐ Wáng thinks that titans enact changes at a speed similar to humans (which would be an understandable mistake; I doubt he knows enough to realize just how slowly titan society moves because of how their physiology makes them perceive the passage of time) that timeframe is still much too optimistic in my opinion.
No one ever discusses any secret in the General Assembly of the UN expecting it to still be a secret. It’s not about “breaking the news”, its about how to react as Earth’s population figures it out and of course they all won’t figure it out at the same rate.
What Eyrn and Robyn did was to point out that the empire is no more monolithic than Earth and that while it changes slowly it has been changing for a long time already and it is approaching a tipping point now. That’s the message that the leaders have to get out to counter reaction to the bad news.
The zealots thought Rixie was Kali. .. I can see how that would be distressing.
I really don’t think it’s likely, but if those in the empire got footage of said riots it really wouldn’t do Humans any favors.
Solis: You see? They can’t even go a press conference without setting something on fire!
Ah yes, but for every human rioter there are two other clever little humans who have already turned the news into a profit maker…
Two of the most influential internet ministers in my country are proclaiming this the end of the world.
…and isn’t that what Solis was really worried about after all 🙂
In other news my rendering PC is dead. Dickhead here overclocked the CPU as an experiment to speed up rendering and forgot to upgrade my heatsink…fuck.
…
*slowly backs out of the comments section for today*
P.S. I liked the back and forth in this chapter.
Goddam Aisell!! wait…..wrong story….
Note to Self: Invest in Google and flux capacitors…
Interesting Darren playing a role here……fairly spry for a dead guy or was it pretty fly for a white guy??….
It seems that there will be an Avalon-Earth alliance as I suspect that it would be..
I am disappointed in the reactions of the earth leaders. I was expecting a more happy docile reaction. Grateful that Los Titanos have finally established formal relations, protected us from the buggies and enjoying the lavish gifts they have bestowed upon us…Bunch O’ ingrates I’ll tell ya..
What lavish gifts? An Earth-Avalon alliance can’t really work when neither side can reach the other without help from the titans, because neither side has warp drive.
If Niall was to land on Earth, that would be a game changer. With his help, Earth would close much of the technical gap in 20 years. Earth years.
Perhaps Pryvanni can get clearance to set up some gates between Avalon and Earth.
Being totally honest I never even thought of that…
It’s been a thought on my mind since Avalon first started its independence.
The two worlds may not have warp yet, but why not let them slingshot at each other?
I should mention here that even with gateways, warp is still needed. From Titan, chapter ten:
Pryvani shrugged. “It has its limitations. The range between any two gates is only about ten light-years, so in order to be effective a network of them would have to be created. Also the physical forces and power needs pretty much preclude these things being put in a system that is inhabited.”
By the way, Sorcha mentioned near the end of Titan: Physics that her father managed to doubled aforementioned range.
It’s only about 21TLY from Tarsuss System which already has a gate to Sol System and Sol Azatlia is along the way so it probably requires only a gate near Earth and perhaps one intermediate gate and two jumps to get from Earth to Avalon.
Dr. Niall Freeman is a scientist. His job is to push the boundaries of knowledge. That is not what Earth needs right now, The mission is to deploy existing titan tech, most of which is freely available info on the empire’s network.
What Earth needs is engineers and communications specialists. In other words they need Myona and Shaar and Naskia and whoever others Momma Warbucks can muster on her lengthy payroll.
What Freeman can do best is find the means to leap-frog the titans such as by pushing his compact reactor design into production on Earth.
As to the drive technology the Avalonians have access to both the fastest and most pretty starships in the empire and no doubt someone is already thinking of an Earth-Avalon gate.
First…I can’t BELIEVE I didn’t think of Momma Warbucks! DAMN I like that, it’d of been a perfect Darren nick name!
Second, and this is by no means a spoiler…but…has anyone stopped to think perhaps if the people of Avalon will even WANT to associate with earth? I mean, culturally separated by thousands of years, with a great big hunk of space separating them.
Dunknow, we have a hard enough time getting along with other humans from EARTH, let alone millions of miles away.
And, the idea of a big huge planet of humans to sweep in and try to “rule” them by proxy might be a bit of a turn off.
Oh interesting thought process… That wasn’t my idea at all. What was my idea was an outreach, an alliance like has been implied in this recent chapter…
You mean the Avalonians wouldn’t be interested in knowing about their ancestral home world? The tribe and other empire humans definitely would.
Well if *you* want to rule them all I guess you first would have to get a ring…
Gauging by Lysis reaction I imagine Avalonians her age would definitely want to associate with Earth since it’s basically a legendary place. It would be akin to discovering Atlantis is totally real and not wanting to associate with it but even more so.
Now Avalonians after that, yeah I would assume so. I imagine they wouldn’t want to be dictated to by Earth, but in a universe where humans are pets or food, why wouldn’t you want to work with a human dominated planet?
Well, associating and ruling are two totally different things. But ya, Earth is not exactly the best role model for human behaviour, especially since, you know, Avalon was created in the first place in case the people of Earth did something really stupid like wipe themselves out. That aside though, Darren of course has strong ties now to both civilizations, so we’ll have to see how thinly stretched he gets. My guess is there’ll be some amount of communication (eventually?) between the two, even if it ends up being on a non-official level.
I’m just throwing that out there, you never know.
A small world like Avalon would be very easy to swallow up culturally. It would be difficult to preserve what ever cultural identity you have, by a planet of over whateverBILLION people.
Also, one must stop to wonder how each individual nation on earth will take this news. Sure, we know how the world leaders have taken it, and would likely take it. A whole planet of humans at about roughly the same level technologically as us? SWEET…a place we can move to in order to alleviate pressure on our likely overpopulated resource scarce planet!
Now, I don’t know about you, but I’m not sure the Avalonians would be ok with that.
I also wonder how the populace would react, on earth, and Avalon. *Twiddles thumbs* sure would be nice if we had a background chatter on this ehh…;)
Avalon’s relationship to Earth will almost certainly echo 19th century America’s relationship with Europe. Avalon is a vastly underpopulated and fertile world ripe for explosive development and mass immigration. Obviously millions of humans are about to be moving from the empire including every last one in an HOS shelter immediately when emancipation is passed and a later wave when the educated children of current pet humans reach maturity and take off even if their parents don’t migrate.
However like 1800’s America, Avalon will require a vast influx of both capital and technical expertise the empire can’t provide and Pryvani shouldn’t provide. I’d expect you’re going to see even more people headed from Earth than arrive from the empire for the same promise of free land and opportunity that drove America.
And, just like America, Avalon will keep an arm’s length political relationship with Earth and eventually with the empire allowing humans to come freely and trade to flourish but establishing a separate identity.
Farther down the road the pattern set by Avalon will be repeated when Ibanez is safe to occupy and eventually other super-mu worlds throughout and beyond current empire boundaries. That is how humans move out into an already “occupied” galaxy.
Well…this post was going to be about how Avalon was on a moon, not a planet, and therefore probably pretty small. I’m glad I decided to research it first.
Earth: 6371.0 km radius
Moon: 1737.10 km radius
Avalon: 6013 km radius
And what the heck for comparison:
Titan: 2576 km radius
Archavia: 10193 km radius
So ya…Avalon would have lots of room for expansion, but I would be kind of pissed too if some other world decided to come in and claim land. After all, Earth has a history of doing that on our own planet and it rarely turns out good for the people who lived there originally.
@Dann don’t tease us, I’ve been saying this story desperately needs a background chatter since the Lem making it to Saturn was public knowledge in the empire. Everything since then has just added to it.
I agree that culturally Avalon is a very fragile place and that any human migration there should be limited. Avalon is a place that should be allowed to develop on its own without any ‘contamination’ from other sources. As I see it, its a place of sanctuary for empire humans and its own entity..
Avalon is also a unique place in the galaxy. An ecological time capsule from earth’s past. Unique even from earth and I think that uniqueness should be preserved. Since its further behind earth in development they have room to expand. Not sure how much of the livable land mass is occupied but I imagine its still as small percentage.
As for Earth I would think they maxed its carry capacity or damn near it, earth’s solution would be to colonize other super-mu planets. Avalon may get there in time.
Pryvani would then have to be bald and have a pot belly 🙂
Who says mommies have to look like daddies? (Regardless of whether or not they are related)
I agree that Earthlings settling on Avalon would be a problem.
This being said, Avalon’s culture has already been deeply modified by Titans’ culture, for obvious reasons (religious first, now technological and political). Even the language on Avalon is Archavian.
So, while I see the objection against Earth humans settling on Avalon, former pets settling there would make a lot of sense : lots of space, fresh start, minimal cultural difference.
Because unless we think former pets should stay with their masters (how fucked up would that be ?), they will have to go live somewhere.
Is there anyway Earth could negotiate for Mars to be terraformed ? Nice Archavian-like gravity, lots of space, fresh start. But I guess terraforming takes decades ? More ?
It should be entirely up to the human whether they want to stay with the titan that owned them.
@soatari : “It should be entirely up to the human whether they want to stay with the titan that owned them.”
I disagree. I think former pets should get the opportunity to make informed and educated decisions for themselves. Which is why they shouldn’t be allowed to do whatever they want at first :
1) the story is intent on making the parallel between pet humans and slavery in the US. That parallel only holds so far but let’s roll with it : in what universe would it be okay for former slaves to keep living in their former master’s house ?
What, because that one happened to be “kind” ? And perhaps the former slave could keep working the same field, for a (symbolic) salary of course. And the pet could keep amusing his Titan, but as a person now of course. And they could maybe start a family in that house, beneath the watchful eye of the master, who is now magically fully fair and unbiased.
That would not be messed up at all.
2) the pet humans need to be legally protected because they were kept their entire life in abject ignorance and submission by their Titan masters. At the very least, it’s an obvious case of abuse against a vulnerable person. I don’t care how “gentle” that abuse was.
In any such case, you remove the victim from that environment, regardless of the wishes of said victim : a child might want to keep living with his abusive parents, you take him away anyway.
Even Eyrn, upon arriving in the Empire, was under such a legal status (see Exile).
3) good old Stockholm syndrome also needs to be taken in consideration. Same reasonning as above.
Now, obviously, I’m talking about the real pets, not the characters who are technically and legally pets but are treated as persons by their “masters” and have been for years. For those, a simple psychological evaluation to prove they are fit to make decisions and then they, indeed, can do whatever they want.
But the former pets should be settled away from titan influence until they can get an education, shake off a lifetime of submission and build up the psychological freedom to make decisions.
Then, if they want to go back to their Titans (and if those Titans are both willing and able to treat them as people), then sure, why not.
Think of the Titan couple and their human couple a few chapters ago : the Titans “love” their pets, the Humans “love” them back, yet, it is an abusive relationship, even though there’s no physical violence involved. If we were talking about parents and their children, I’d call Child Services.
The thing to remember is pet humans are victims, they should be treated as such.
That’s what I think should happen.
Do I think that’s what will happen in the Titanverse ? Of course not !
I’ll bet there will be some problems here and there but for the most part, Titans will suddenly find their noble core and most human pets will want to stay with their “masters”, now their family.
Kumbaya overdose. 😉
@soatari, NightEye: My opinion is that former pets need to receive compulsory education at centers set up for that purpose, but that (for the most part) they should be the ones to decide whether they live on-site or commute to and from their former masters. That way, these humans can develop the ability to make informed decisions and be weaned off being dependent on their masters, while acknowledging that most former pets and masters share a bond of love.
By the way, the Empire probably has compulsory education already for its children, so compulsory education for humans shouldn’t be that much of a stretch.
I was being sarcastic. It was a slight poke at a reply in another chapter… wassa matter? can’t read my mind? What type of sci-fi fan are you? 🙂
RE: OHH Below:
Wow, you’ve captured my ex (well one of them) quite well….. Brings back fond memories I’ll tell ya……
Eyrn and Martin are going to become good friends, I bet, and I’m starting to like their relationship.
Oh god the debate in the comments has spilled into the next chapter!! Oh wait…
Jokes aside a much needed chapter, Darren and Avalon much needed for these talks, and I’m happy the Earth/Avalon relationship is off to a good start.
O don’t worry, I’m itching to launch my broadsides here. A couple of slightly more believable reactions does not fix much. I’m just debating whether to wait til the final chapter.
we await with baited breath…
It is a lovely thing to spend months of your life, working hard and giving up your time on a piece of work to post for free to have others who haven’t contributed anything shit all over it. But that’s fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We welcome constructive feedback. But at this point you’re just being a dick.
Your Sci-fi story is causing intellectual debate and discussion. Most writers find that to be a great thing.
Also, being critical of where the story has gotten (I’ve professed praise over nearly all the novels so far) is not shitting on your hard work, which I appreciate, it is as you say constructive criticism. I apologize if I can neither talk about the intellectual aspects or perceived story flaws without upsetting you, but you chose to write stories for a public audience, surely you expected blowback sooner or later against either the writer’s philosophy or some of their choices in writing?
My issue is here: “O don’t worry, I’m itching to launch my broadsides here.”
Broadside implies attack. A few people are saying they take issue with reactions. That’s fine. You’re allowed to. I’m usually pretty chilled out and I think if you go back over every debate there’s been I’ve not gotten into discussions like this. I like peace and quiet. But the nature of your feedback has moved from constructive to what seem like attacks.
I apologize, didn’t mean for it to sound that way. I meant that I wanted to debate the decision the characters are making, because its very controversial.
I like this series alot, I’ve been around it since it started and a good piece of work not only interests a person but gets them involved with its themes, ideas, and characters. That’s where I am, interested and I want to see it stay strong. It pulled me in and I think there is fertile ground here and I want to see it explored fully with multiple competing ideas, my only concern was that maybe it was being ignored purposefully but I think DX’s post below is spot on and set me straight. Its both the enjoyment of the story and the subsequent concern that push me to comment on these issues (and a love for debating these ideas among other similarly interested people), not out of hostility or trolling glee. My sincerest apologies if I offended you.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. We do love the debate. It stimulates us to write more. We want to fill in the gaps and explore scenarios. The recent Nomad vignette and TD’s The One who Lived being recent examples of that. But if we think we’re being trolled it makes you ask “why do I even bother?” and saps the will to write.
I really do appreciate you taking the time to outline your position and apologising. It takes a strong person to do so.
Dude, do you *ever* have anything nice to say?
Be cool!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3AY1zTzaE
Go figure…Darren comes to the General Assembly, Earth’s closest approximation to the Tower of Babel, and he’s the most clear spoken person in the room. 🙂
I’d like to think a certain amount of wisdom comes with being roughly 170 years old.
you’d think… but then, …there’s Alex 😛
Alex has shown incredible wisdom at times
no, he has. I’m mostly kidding.
Darren has never really been an imbecilic though. I mean, you don’t get promoted to Master Sergeant, and put in charge of THE single largest secret(pun not intended) the nation has, by being a bumbling oaf, right?
Mmm… The reactions were a bit more believable here.
Although I question the wisdom of discussing the subject of human pets in an assembly if the goal is secrecy.
Well it’s an assembly of world leaders, if they can’t talk about who can?
Depends how many people are there. A handful, ok, maybe it can stay a secret.
More than a dozen ? I don’t like those odds.
Also depends for how long the lie has to go on. 6 months ? A year ? Ok, that might work.
But Titans are slow and the treaty won’t be revisited for 30 years. If C1 reclassification takes that long…
Also depends for how long the lie has to go on. 6 months ? A year ? Ok, that might work.
But Titans are slow and the treaty won’t be revisited for 30 years. If C1 reclassification takes that long… That would be a big problem. So big, it could be an entire story. Make Sorcha a main character, and you could call it Hybrid.
As Ben Franklin said, three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
The empire is not only Titans. We’ve been led to believe that the Ler, Avartle and Dunnermac are almost unanimously in favor. You only need to sway so many Titans. The rest, slow or fast are already there.
It’s not possible. Not just because there’s at least a few dozen leaders present who would all have to agree to A) keep this from their people, dubious at best B) not have their own agenda or goals in mind and reveal it and C) They have to let a couple of people among their closest advisers/aides know in order to even function so conceivably many dozens more would know.
However the biggest problem as mentioned by you is the status of humans is being reviewed for at least 20 Earth years. possibly longer. During this time will no non-leader be able to speak with Eyrn, like in an interview? Certainly would seem odd the ambassador from another species is not allowed to talk to the press. For 20 years… If an interview did occur a question like that would come up, or how her species/government works and views contact with humans. Questions about why humans aren’t allowed to know more, travel to Archavia, trade, etc.
And all the while the leaders will have to lie, because these questions will be posited to them often. One could slip up, one could wish not to lie, for political or philisophical or moral reasons. For 20 years. What about the democracies of the Earth? Won’t they still have elections? Ones where leaders like President Martin will have to answer tough questions from the media, her opponent, and in debates about the progress humanity is making with Titans. “President Martin its been 4 years since first contact, yet we’ve never had a discussion with Ambassador Bass about the humans within the Empire that accompanied them here. How do they live and work? What career opportunities exist for humans in the Empire? Why are we unable to send representatives to Archavia or our own ambassadors? How strong are our relations with their government?” Those are the low hanging fruit of questions.
The greater problem, which I will withhold the essay rolling around my head until the end of Contact, why isn’t truth the best option here. I’m hardly an idealist, but uniting together as a people to stand strong against harsh realities is as much a part of our history as is failing to do so. A united Earth working towards the goal (preferably peacefully for realistic and moral reasons) of freeing our brothers and sisters enslaved across the stars is a hell of a lot better that an Earth duped by a great lie perpetuated at every level because “we aren’t able to handle the truth”. The world can be a scary place, especially when its one small part of a greater universe of danger. But this approach mirrors Pryvani’s lie. It says that people (except an enlightened few) are not capable of dealing with the greater challenges that face us., of thinking about the greater picture. Sure there will be difficulties along the way, stumbling blocks in the form of movements and other agents (many of whom will have sound arguments themselves) trying to guide us down other paths. But you overcome those with wisdom, reason, and moral fiber. Not lies and deceit. Possibly conflict will result in some form or another, unlikely but possible. 11 billion people and you will have your outliers, but they can usually be overcome and usually without arms. The lie is the worst part, not just because it is a lie, but because we never grow as a species, we never advance our minds to the next level. We just stumble, like little children from one blissfully ignorant place to another. It hinders us, not helps us.
All I will say — as I tend to let my work speak for itself — is that you are falling victim to a classic fallacy, namely that the actions of characters in a story represent what an author believes are the ideal actions for the characters to take.
Now, carry on.
Where’d you get the number 20 from? Granted it could be that long, but it could be shorter, there’s no deadline on that. They said it could take the special committee years but there was no hard deadline or minimum they had to work with. So yeah it could be 20, it could be 6. Depends on the authors prerogative.
Unless you meant this from chapter 32 (yes I have too much time on my hands.)
“I’ve spoken with the Secretary-General. They aren’t thrilled, but they won’t reject the treaty over it. Besides, what you’ve given us – operational and transportation support, joint control of the territory, and partial operational control of Titan Station – it’s plenty for now. And we’re going to revisit it in thirty Earth years. Add that you’re going to continue defensive operations, I’d say it’s a win-win.”,
This had to deal with Sovereignty of Saturn, not the classification of humans.
As for whether honesty is the best policy, well this is purely opinion because I don’t think there’s a definite right answer to this. As we’re seeing right now there are riots happening just because of the appearance of titans. Dropping the truth right now would almost certainly cause a global panic. Now is that better than the truth being spilled years from now? *shrug* No idea it is just speculation.
In regards to Pryvani, remember she admitted that just blurting the truth as she did, which is what you’re suggesting, was a disaster for Avalon. If she could do it again she would have made the transition smoother. Currently that’s the plan. Stabilize relations, assure the public there’s not an immediate invasion about to happen, and try to ease them into it. Will that work? Well the authors know I have no idea.
further context on the chapter 32 quote
“We’re set, Shang Xiao,” Eyrn said. “There will be more to come, of course, but that’s why I’m moving back to Earth for a while. My government is ready to sign off, as long as you’re sure the UN will agree to disagree on sovereignty from Saturn out.”
“I’ve spoken with the Secretary-General. They aren’t thrilled, but they won’t reject the treaty over it. Besides, what you’ve given us – operational and transportation support, joint control of the territory, and partial operational control of Titan Station – it’s plenty for now. And we’re going to revisit it in thirty Earth years. Add that you’re going to continue defensive operations, I’d say it’s a win-win.”</i.
The treaty had to deal with the sovereignty of saturn (see quote below). Considering Humans are about 30 years away, barring tech jumps via trade with titan/avalon, from being able to do anything with Saturn or its moons it seemed fair.
argh, my kingdom for an edit button! That last one was a meant to be a direct response to NightEye’s post. x.x
“assembly of world leaders” – that in itself should cause worry…
Which would guarantee word getting out 🙂
I’d be far more worried if world leaders didn’t meet after first contact with an Alien Empire.
A ‘ho hum nothing to see here approach’ would be way more suspicious.
I was making a general comment about such assemblies, trying to be funny..ok won’t quit my day job…
Sorry always hard to read tone online ^^;
“We are in executive session, there are no cameras here, our gool recorders are locked by security code… As long as no one present decides to leak it, I’d say they’re fine.
It’s almost like…a bunch of people jumped down D.X’s throat like a pack of wild dogs before he even had a chance to post the very next chapter. Sort of like…it’s a chapter book…with….chapters or something…
http://cdn.tech2notify.in/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/create-own-memes.jpg
There’s a problem with the story that goes beyond a lack of believable reactions until this point. That’s what we were addressing last chapter.
Well, you’re certainly welcome to a full refund PAAA…
I’m having a couple of issues with 1/2 of a single novel out of 9. Sorry.
But hey thats how I get my exercise….jumping to conclusions…. stretching the truth… dodging hard questions………I get tired just thinking about it 🙂
Ya’ll are taking this perhaps a tad too serious, maybe? Good stuff anyways…
* Now envisioning Pryvani as Momma Warbucks *
The goal isn’t secrecy, the goal is damage control. The world is already freaking out at their mere existence. Telling them that humans living in the empire are considered pets and don’t have rights as a person would just be adding a very potent fuel to the fire.
As much as the world has the right to know, the world leaders have a responsibility to keep their people safe, even from themselves.