“Can’t you go any faster?”
“These roads weren’t made for APCs, ma’am. Any faster we risk snapping an axle.”
“Any slower, we risk not being in position.”
Archon Adoni Raptis stared out the windshield of the armored personnel carrier, barely cognizant of its bouncing and jostling. She was glad she’d happened to be here; Stratichos Tarsuss had asked her to accompany him to Paletine, to help get the first platoon of the 4th Jacks settled in. They had barely started to settle in to their temporary quarters when the alert sounded; she just hoped that the thirty-four soldiers at her disposal would be enough to hold until reserves could get into position. Donta was good – she’d trained him, he god damn better be – but still, she was glad that she got to be here with her soldiers on the front lines.
“4th Jacks One Platoon, this is Paletine Forward, come in,” her comms crackled.
“This is Jacks Actual, Stratichos, over.”
“Adoni, Red squadron reports four hostiles have disembarked from the bogey. They appear to be heading toward Paletine on foot. What’s your ETA?”
“Frak,” Adoni muttered. “We’re about three minutes east of Cemerteus at current speed. Tell me they won’t beat us.”
“They won’t, but you’ll have maybe two minutes to get your position set,” Zhan said. There was a pause before he said, “You may want to set your line east of the village.”
Adoni knew what he meant; stopping and setting a line here would give them more time to get ready, and it would give them a better chance of repelling the initial attack.
It would also mean sacrificing Cemerteus.
“If we can beat them to the village, we will, sir,” Adoni said. “These are Jacks. They can handle it.”
“Gorram right they can. Good hunting, Archon.”
“Goddess protect you, sir,” Adoni said with a wry smile.
“If you need her out there….”
“We have this, sir,” Adoni said. “We’ll call when the hostiles are neutralized. Fourth First out. Mr. Donta, we’re going to have to set fast.”
“Yes, ma’am,” Ikinsilokagos Daru Donta said, from the second of four APCs. “Palemst Porealus, we’re going to need weapons hot, and have the tank ready to fire.”
“Yes, sir!”
Adoni listened to the chatter, focusing ahead. And as they reached the edge of the village, she saw them.
* * *
The hostiles walked along the narrow clearing that marked the Paletine high road. It was cut through a redwood forest, one whose trees were actually taller than the Titans. At last, they had broken through, and could see the terrain that lay ahead of them.
“There’s a small village ahead,” Liss observed. “A few houses. Probably not worth it.”
“Eh, good practice,” Margu said. “Vilum, how’s the holding tank?”
Karral Vilum was steering a holding tank, which floated on a gravitic skiff; it had been detached from the habitat proper. “It is going to be difficult to move once loaded. This is already pushing limits.”
“I don’t know how you can push it at all,” Xele said. “I can barely walk.”
Karral laughed at the hacker’s struggles, the first real emotion he’d showed since pinning Margu to the wall. “You’re trying to walk like you usually do. The gravitic compensation isn’t perfect. Don’t stride so high, shuffle more. There, much better,” he said. “Once you get used to it, it’s second nature.”
“Yes, fine,” Margu muttered. “If that skiff is hard to control, we’ll have to have someone guard it, while we bring the ship in. All right, everyone ready with the collectors?”
Liss looked toward the village, squinting at the road that led into it. There were a few small vehicles there, the last one just rolling to a stop.
“We have company,” she said, pointing.
Margu blinked. “A toy tank. Charming.”
“Their toy planes were dangerous enough,” Vilum said. “We aren’t armored.”
“We’re still mountains,” Margu said. “And I can crush that thing with my foot.”
Back by the APVs, Adoni recognized immediately that her forces would need a bit of time to get fully situated. “Turn on the speakers,” she said to a bekchi. Grabbing the microphone, she called out, “This is Archon Adoni Raptis of the Avalonian Guard, commanding, 7th Special Assault Group, 1st Cavalry. This territory is held by the government of Paletine, and Titans are not allowed in without permission of the government, which you do not have. You are directed to return to your vessel and depart Avalon. If you do so, we will not harm you. If you require assistance, we will provide it, but we cannot allow you to approach any closer.”
The nice thing about being human was that she could hear the conversation of the Titans, even as they attempted to be quiet.
“Keep going,” the older man said. “Pick up your pace.”
“Margu,” said a woman with braided hair, “I don’t….”
“Gorram it, Liss, they’re humans! What harm can they do?”
Adoni nodded. “SAM battery, fire a spread to detonate at the ground, about a plethron short of the targets.”
Four surface-to-air missiles were immediately loosed, detonating less than a unit from the Titans.
“Shaka!” Xele said, jumping back and falling to the ground.
“This is your last warning,” the humans called.
“Frak them,” Margu said. “Come on!”
He charged toward the humans, and Vilum followed close behind, with Liss and Xele behind them.
“Flash-bangs!” Ikinsilokagos Donta called, and two SAM gunners loosed missiles aimed near, but not at the charging Titans.
“Ha! They missed, see….” Margu said, before the missiles exploded in a fury of noise and light.
“Target the collection devices,” Donta ordered. It was a testament to Jacks training that nobody had to be coached about them; though they had never seen them in the field, they knew exactly what the devices strapped to the backs of the Titans were, and the tank and SAM batteries immediately turned their targeting to them.
Liss was just regaining her senses when she felt the impact on her controller. Three precision strikes cut the hose on her collector. She saw Vilum fall back as the holding container shattered from a repeated volley from the miniature tank’s cannon.
Margu roared as he felt sparks from his containment unit hit him on the back of his neck. Half-blinded and completely deaf, he raised his blaster and fired indiscriminately in the general direction of the miniature army.
He got three shots off before he felt a searing pain in his wrist, followed by a sudden jerk downward.
Two more volleys from the humans took out the grav inhibitors on his ankles, causing him to collapse in a heap, breathing heavily, trying not to black out, trying to ignore the bullet wound in his right wrist. He grabbed his blaster with his left, and though it felt like it weighed as much as a boulder, he managed to secure it in his pocket.
Xele stumbled.
To say that she was out of her element was an understatement. She was very comfortable behind a screen or holodisplay; she didn’t want to be shot at, and she was clumsily trying to get out of the way. But that was not why she stumbled.
“Line secure!” It sounded like a quiet shout to Xele, which made no sense, until she realized that it was coming from near the ground.
She felt the firm tug at her ankle, and suddenly the world went topsy-turvy as she crashed to the ground. She didn’t have time to process what she was seeing, not exactly – she heard a wheet, and then another, and then she felt the two strands being pulled tight.
“Frak!” she shouted, and struggled against them.
Soldiers pushed the winch on the troop carrier to full throttle. It was struggling to pull back against the thrashing giantess. It was losing the battle, but slowly enough for their purpose; though they’d love to tie her down, Gulliver-style, they’d settle for what they were trying to manage – a snare, which would hold the titan in place long enough to allow them to disable her gravitics.
“Xele!” Vilum shouted. He turned, and started to run toward her. On instinct, he dove around artillery fire, and began battle-crawling toward the young woman who was struggling to get free of her bonds.
Liss looked at the chaos. There was only one possible move.
“Gorram it!” she shouted, as loud as she could. “Enough! Enough! We give up.”
Even over the din of the brief battle, the titan’s voice carried. Adoni looked at the woman, who had raised her hands in a universal signal of surrender.
“Cease fire!” Raptis called. “All troops, cease fire.”
There was a long silence, as the humans stared at the titans, and the titans back at them.
“You said earlier,” Liss said, “that if we went back to our ship, you’d let us leave. If we agree to drop the collection devices and do just that…will you let us go?”
Adoni smiled, just a bit. Darren Xanthopolous had made all his officer recruits read The Art of War. Sun Tzu was a wise and canny soldier, and he had been very clear about what one should do to a surrendering enemy.
Raptis got out her bullhorn. “Drop the collection devices and any weapons. Head back to your ship. Do not deviate. If you require assistance in repairing your ship, send one – say again – one of your party back to notify us. We will expect your ship to depart as soon as you can.”
“The ship will be fine,” Liss said, pulling her collector off and tossing it on the ground. She also pulled a knife from an ankle holster; she hated to drop it, it was Jotnar titanium. But she did, setting it with the collector, and stepping back.
“Release the prisoner,” Raptis said.
Xele let out a sigh as the tension on the steel rope around her ankle slackened. She sat up and rubbed her ankle, and for the first time, got a good look at the assailants around her feet. For half a second, she was tempted to kick at them – that cable had hurt, gorram it – but she didn’t. For one thing, she’d probably hurt them badly if she did. And for another – they’d certainly hurt her back.
“We’re going to use this to transport the wounded member of our group,” Liss said pushing the remains of the containment unit off the skiff. “Bierdna, give me a hand,” she called.
“In a second,” Karral said. “You okay?” he asked Xele, offering a hand.
“Yeah,” she said. Looking back down, she gave the humans, who were backing off, a tight smile. “You guys…you’re a lot tougher than you look.”
Margu helped her up, and the three of them drug Margu onto the skiff. “We won’t get another chance at this,” Margu grumbled through his shock.
“We won’t survive this chance if we keep trying,” Liss said, heaving him onto the skiff. She looked over her shoulders at the humans, and turning, began to push the skiff back down the trail.
“Sitrep,” Adoni called.
“Two injured, neither severe, ma’am,” an asker said. “If he’d been a better shot, we woulda been in trouble.”
“Flash-bangs did their jobs, as did the snare,” Donta said.
“Eliud is a good designer,” Adoni said, with no small amount of pride.
“He is at that, ma’am. Thank him for us when you get home, will you?”
“That depends on what condition the house is in,” Adoni said with a laugh. “His last explosives experiment almost destroyed the shed.” And as the titans had retreated a respectable distance down the road, her subordinates took that as a signal that it was safe to cheer their victory.
“As you were!” Donta called, after allowing the celebration to go on just long enough. “We aren’t clear yet.”
“That’s right,” Raptis said. “Trackers, forward.”
“Yes, ma’am!” said a senior noncom, hopping on his ATV. A younger one mirrored him.
“Keep reasonable distance, send in reports on the hour,” Donta said. “Standard R.O.E. Nest, I don’t need you to be a hero. They’re retreating, just make sure they keep retreating.”
The senior noncom, Palemst-1 Nestuseu Themego, grinned. “Now, Lokagos, when have I ever tried to be a hero?”
Donta sighed. “Keep an eye on him, Asker Ionula.”
“Don’t I always, sir?” the junior noncom said, shaking her head. And with that, the two vehicles peeled out, on the trail of the retreating giants.
* * *
About halfway down the trail, Liss and Karral brought the skiff to a halt; yes, it was gravitic, but it still had mass, and it was still hard work to push and steer it down the narrow, winding road. “We’ll rest for just a second,” Liss said.
“What if they get angry about it?” Xele asked.
“They won’t. They will understand us pausing,” Vilum said. “As long as we do not double back.”
Xele sat down, and began to shake. “They could have killed us back there. I don’t know why they didn’t.”
“Dead Titans are probably a pain to deal with,” Liss mused. “Big mountain of meat, rotting outside of the town.”
“Same as them capturing us,” Vilum said. “Just keeping us fed would be difficult. Easier to let us go. Smart of them, really.”
“You’re talking about them like they’re people,” Margu grumbled.
“Well, if they’re pets, they have better aim than you do,” Liss retorted. His right hand was burned and mangled and full of shrapnel. Vilum applied some lattice gel to it, to keep it from bleeding out and to keep the pain down, but there was no doubt that Margu would need it replaced.
“We need to figure out how to do an end run around their soldiers,” Margu said, grimacing. “They didn’t have many there, so probably the city behind them is unguarded. If we can work our way around….”
“Margu, you are not seriously saying we should go back on our word and carry on, are you?” Liss asked. “You said this was a mek run, it’s anything but. I don’t want to take the haircut on expenses any more than you do, and I hate giving up on three million creds, but you can’t spend credits if you’re too dead to access your bank account. Hells, you were the one who taught me that you have to know when to drop your cargo, so you can live to make the next run.”
“She’s right,” Vilum said. “This job…tactically, it requires more firepower. More collectors, dedicated guns. We were expecting pets. These are soldiers, and their weaponry is enough to kill us.”
“We have to go on,” Margu said. “Don’t you understand? We can’t give up now! There’s a fortune to be made!”
Liss looked at her former father-in-law carefully. He was a liar, and a thief, and a con artist. But he was also in pain, too much pain to pull his act off effectively, not when he was trying it on her.
“Who’s the buyer, Margu?” Liss asked, quietly.
Margu harrumphed. “You know I can’t tell you.”
“Who’s the buyer?”
“What difference does it make? They’re good for the credits, trust me!”
“I don’t,” Liss said. “Now unless you want me to dump you off this skiff and leave you for the humans to collect, you’re gonna tell me: Who’s the frakking buyer?”
Margu blinked. He sighed. “Liss…I….”
“Tell me, gorram it!”
“I don’t know! Not for sure. I worked with a middleman. You know how it is!”
“Who’s the middleman?”
Margu swallowed.
“Siabo Snyusia.”
Liss looked at Margu for a long moment, before she punched him square in the jaw.
“You frakking moron. I told you, Margu! I don’t work with Insectoids!”
“It isn’t…I might not be….”
“Oh, right, might not be Insectoids. You were just working with the Overseer’s attorney. Frakking idiot! Now I see why you don’t want to give up, you don’t want to have to explain why your advance money was lost! Which is why you don’t frakking work with the bugs, you motherfrakker!”
There was a long silence, before Xele said, softly, “Oh, Gods. They weren’t…they weren’t gonna be pets.”
“No,” Liss said. “They’d be food. Right? We were collecting food for the Hive? That the plan, Margu?”
“I don’t know! I don’t ask! You’re a runner, Liss, you know as well as I do that you don’t ask!”
“No, but feeding humans to the bugs is wrong, even if they’re your average pets,” Liss said. “These….”
“They are not pets,” Vilum said. “I don’t know what they are, but they are not pets.”
“They’re just animals with training,” Margu said.
“So are we,” Vilum replied.
Liss knelt down at Margu’s side.
“Margu, you didn’t sell me out back on Neith, so I’m going to do you a favor. I’ll go with you to Snyusia. He’s an evil bastard, but he’s got a reputation as a sensible evil bastard. I’ll help cover the shortage, and I’ll even work with him to pay off the rest. But we aren’t going to win this one.”
“And them? What do they say? You’re costing them millions!”
Liss looked over her shoulder. “I’m not going to ask you to help cover, but this is gonna leave you unpaid.”
“Unpaid and alive is preferable to unpaid and dead,” Vilum said. “And to be blunt…the Insectoids took from me everything that I had. I would rather be unpaid than see them profit off me again.”
“And I’m not going to help turn humans into food, no matter what it pays,” Xele said. “That’s sick.”
Liss turned back to Margu. “It’s decided, Margu. We’re done. If you want to keep on, you do so on your own.”
Margu sighed. “No…no…you’re right, Liss. I’m not going to convince you. We’ll go back to the ship.”
“Right,” Liss said. “Figure it will take about ten minutes to get back. I’m just glad we’re going to get out of here with our heads on.”
“They are smart,” Vilum said, pushing Margu’s skiff. “Smart enough to know that sending us away accomplishes their goals easier than killing us….”
“That’s good news, eh?” Ionula mused, as the two soldiers watched the Titans head back toward their vessel.
“Maybe,” Nest replied. “But there’s still one guy looking for a fight. I’m not gonna trust we’re done until we see them lift off. Come on.”
“Afraid you were gonna say that,” Ionula said, following along.
* * *
The four attackers were fairly quiet on the walk back to the Akelois. There wasn’t much to be happy about; each had already spent much of their Ҧ3 million haul in their minds, and having that turn into a Ҧ0 haul at best was dispiriting, to say the least.
Still, as Xele helped Vilum push Margu’s skiff across the forest (and by help…well, she wasn’t, but Karral wasn’t complaining), a question occurred to her.
“What did you mean before,” she asked, “when you said the Insectoids took everything from you?”
“He’s a maggothead,” Margu grunted.
“She wasn’t asking you, Margu,” Liss said.
“It’s the gorram truth!” Margu said.
Karral was silent for a moment, before saying, “I was a maggothead, it’s true.”
Xele pushed at the skiff. “You aren’t anymore?”
Karral sighed. “Well…I always am, you know. I don’t drink alcohol, or smoke rador, because…well, if I gave in to the maggots, don’t know what else I’ll give in to. Figure it’s best to stay away from all of it.”
“So you aren’t using anymore?” Xele asked.
“No. Lost my spot in the service. Hurt people I loved. Did things…I made many mistakes. I’m not saying it isn’t tempting, days like today,” he said, with the slightest flash of a smile, “but it won’t make it better. Not really.”
Xele nodded. “No, it won’t. But I know people…it’s not easy to get past it. Not once you start. For what it’s worth, from someone you barely know…I have a lot of respect for that.”
Karral grunted. “Woulda been better if I didn’t have anything to get past.”
But he did actually smile as he said it, a smile he held for a good half-minute.
Soon enough, they came to the Akelois; the low thrum of the power plant told Liss immediately that the restart had been successful.
“All right,” she said, leading them up the ramp into the cargo area, “Bierdna, you check the power couplings down here. Kid, I need you to take a look at the computer core. Margu, you okay?”
Margu got to his feet, happy to be back in low gravity. “I’ll help Vilum get started,” he said. “You go program the flight plan.”
“You can rest,” Liss said, gently. “That hand….”
“It hurts. It won’t kill me,” Margu said, slipping off the lone functional gravitic dampener from his leg. The others shed their gravitics as well; it wouldn’t do to be bouncing off the ceilings of the ship.
Outside, two ATVs slowed up.
“They look to be prepping to depart,” Ionula said. “Checking for damage from the EMP.”
“Good,” Themego replied. “Get on comms, and….”
He paused, at that moment, because he wasn’t sure he was seeing things right. The older man, the one who’d fired on the Jacks, and who’d been wounded by return fire, walked slowly up behind the younger man, who was crouched over an open panel. The older man nodded, and fished in his pocket. In one quick motion, he pulled something out, and put it to the younger man’s head. The young giant stiffened, and fell over on his side, twitching slightly.
The older man knelt down, and felt for a pulse. Nodding, he rose, and headed into the ship.
“Frak me! He killed his crewmate!” Ionula said.
“No,” Nest Themego said, looking carefully. “He’s stunned. He hasn’t gone that far. Yet.”
He frowned, and gunned the electric motor on the ATV. “Call into actual, tell her that we’re gonna need air support here and fast. Whatever they can get.”
“And what are you doing?” Ionula said.
“I’m going after the bastard,” Nest said, and before Ionula had a chance to remind him not to be a hero, he was off.
I’d like to clarify a few things here.
First off we writers aren’t liberals. Two of us are, yes. But I’m very much a pragmatist and DX really isn’t a fan of my “shoot rioters” policy or my thoughts on corporal punishment.
JS is also way more to the right than he is to the left.
Secondly it was me who sketched out the acceleration of Avalon’s technology. This was based on the Boshin period in Japan where in about 50 years it went from early medieval feudal to world superpower. Avalon, given it’s tiny population, and large amount of outside help could easily accelerate that quick.
Contact chapter one covers the dilemma of only gifting so much technology and resources.
As for the Titans being allowed to leave, the answer is simple. Avalonian doctrine is defined by Darren. He is trained by the US military. The US military does not seek to kill surrendered combatants and often turns former enemies into friends. Avalon has likely been doing this during the Bandit Campaigns and now has a solidly learnt doctrine of knowing when to use the sword and when to use the dove.
I like that explanation of Darren’s doctrine, and I think it would be good to explain that in-story.
To Clarify, I’m a Democratic Socialist, not a liberal :p
and I’m only “way right” in Europe.
Speaking of Japan, I’m reminded of the movie The Wind Rises when it comes to Avalon’s rapid development.
It was a great film.
Seriously, without Japan we’d not really have an argument for the acceleration of Avalon.
That makes sense based on that model. Its still an astounding achievement. I’m curious, absent the influence of world powers that Japan had where did the Avalonians get their technology? Didn’t have earth and I’m sure no non-Titan aliens helped out…sooo where did they get the ‘stuff’? Perhaps Pryvani helped out but even she could only do so much without raising eyebrows. You would also need to have the educational background to maintain and develop the technology. So they had to have an advanced school system..
___
Now as for the rules of conduct during military campaigns and the use of military doctrine, I still maintain that it would not be effective – at this point. Darren’s input would work with combatants that are essentially equal. That is how they view each other. It doesn’t exist in this case. One side views the other as trained gerbils with miniature toy weapons. Cute and clever but not a threat and nothing to be taken seriously. Even if those ‘toys’ initially repelled them they still would not be deterred – for long. A different strategy has to be adopted
If the Avalonians were completely on their own, I’d agree with you. They’d need to send the message that they are not worth the trouble.
What actually happened, though, was Pryvani stepped in and provided that, making the whole thing work out. It also made it clear that they’re not completely independent at this point (and can’t be until the Zeramblin Act).
“Adoni smiled, just a bit. Darren Xanthopolous had made all his officer recruits read The Art of War. Sun Tzu was a wise and canny soldier, and he had been very clear about what one should do to a surrendering enemy.”
______
Faulty thinking. The Art of War refers to enemy combatants. These are not. The ‘enemy’ does not think of the humans as opposing combatants. They need a different strategy. Given the present mindset it (the thinking) would backfire.
I would capture and interrogate them. Get as much intel from them as possible. Threaten torture and possible horrific death if they do not comply. If this is the first time such a raid has occurred then it may be necessary to make an example out of them
_____
“Raptis got out her bullhorn. “Drop the collection devices and any weapons. Head back to your ship. Do not deviate. If you require assistance in repairing your ship, send one – say again – one of your party back to notify us. We will expect your ship to depart as soon as you can.” ”
Thats so nice of them. And quite foolish. Sends the wrong signal. Besides, trying to help raiders who tried to kidnap and kill you?? WTF?!! So the thinking is if you are nice and ‘enlightened’ to them they might change their mindset towards humans. Uhh geez… Seriously, this pc stuff is getting out of hand..
Ok so you want to be ‘nice’ to them and not kill them then just truss them up, bag them and deliver to Pryvani, Rixie and co. I’m sure they would know what to do.
They’re trying to be independent here… As far as I know, they don’t really care what the Titans think, as long as they aren’t invading their city.
They have no actual way to capture them without suffering massive casualties which they are trying to avoid.
They have no place to hold them and no way to transport them there even if they did without asking for help from the Titans which would defeat the whole point of being independent in the first place.
The message they want to send is that humans are intelligent rational beings who posses independence and self determination. That these humans should be left alone and not sold off as pets or food, not just because they have the ability to defend themselves, but because as sentient beings they don’t deserve to be pets or food.
Threatening death and torcher are the actions of fearful, irrational beings, and sends the message that not only are these humans nothing more then dumb animals, but dumb animals with guns.
That means any other raider looking to make a fortune off their hide better come loaded for bare next time, and come in with weapons blazing. Don’t bother with collectors, don’t bother calmly walking up to their habitat in the middle of the day. Next time come with smoke and fire. Kill all you can, take whoever’s left.
When you show others compassion they will show you it in return. Treat others without mercy and you will receive non.
You may call it “pc bullshit”, I call it reality. And as we all know, reality has a long documented liberal bias.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/138/244/funny-barack-michelle-obama-face.jpg
They can be disabled quite easily. Trussed up, carted to a holding area for Rixie and co or any other peacekeepers could pick them up. No need for any holding cell. And I said threaten make them believe you are going to torture them. Psychological warfare… … …Soo you are of the school of thought that being ‘nice’ to your enemy would produce the results you want – that is they would reconsider their opinion of you, then change that opinion because of your enlightenment. That is naive, a fantasy. Actually the opposite would occur – any other raider would think twice..Still might come anyway but they might hesitate. They might even come loaded for bear? So what? They are a target anyways and if they defend themselves in the manner I described it may or may not provoke a backlash. So you think they would come with smoke and fire and simply kill them? Just because they defended themselves in a way they saw fit (or I prescribed) Wow, what a fearful world you live in Genguidanos. What do you think Pryvani would do? How about public opinion in the empire what about that?…
So back to the main point; you think being nice to someone who wants to kill/maim/torture/eat you is effective?
And;
“When you show others compassion they will show you it in return. Treat others without mercy and you will receive non. ”
That is a prayer. Very Nice. May even be on a bumper sticker somewhere
Reality as liberal bias? Hmmm lets go to the history books then; WWII – the end was achieved by a mass death via one (uhh two sorry) devices, preceded by firebombing of cities populated by civilians at least 30 -40% of the population died as a result. Our participation was led by a man who would be considered to be a liberal. He also grossly violated the constitutional rights of certain US citizens of a certain nationality which I consider to be shameful…WWI – A butchery of a war, lots of death and destruction – nothing was achieved except to set up WWII. That was also led by a man who would be considered to be a liberal – and a documented racist see here;
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/war.crimes/US/Wilson.htm
Korean War – Also led by a liberal (democrat?) Truman – more death and destruction. Saved about 1/2 of the peninsula though
Vietnam War – More death (this is recording) Kennedy (democrat) started, Johnson (democrat, very liberal) continued and re-inforced it. Didn’t achieve a damn thing -except for death destruction and mayhem.
Thats just the top of my head. Theres is more. Soo we have Liberal/Democrat = death, destruction, mayhem, anarchy. You might be right Genguidanos but it is not a bias it is reality. A horrific reality.
You notice how after we beat the Germans and the Japanese in WW2 we then helped them to rebuild their shattered nations, infrastructure, economies, and lives, giving them back their freedom and independence and self determination, and now not only are Germany and Japan two of the most proposers nations in the world, they also haven’t gone to war with world in the last 70 years?
You notice how after we beat Germany in WW1 we DIDN’T help them to rebuild their shattered nation, infrastructure, economy, and lives, refusing to give them back their freedom and independence and self determination, and as a result, we got WW2?
Right, – AFTER they were defeated…AFTER…..AFTER……AFTER……AFTER (what was that?)
They also had a choice, dealing with the Americans (and Brits) or with the Soviet Union… If that thought doesn’t impress you, then talk with someone who grew up in the old (Communist) Soviet system. There are a few left around around
As for WWI – Ok but that was done AFTER the war. The ‘niceness’ didn’t exist during the war
“Right, – AFTER they were defeated…AFTER…..AFTER……AFTER……AFTER (what was that?)”
Yes. After they were defeated.
The Titans were defeated.
They surrendered! You can’t get more defeated then that!
War’s over Patton!
And you know there are these stupid pesky laws in place dealing with the treatment of enemies that surrender right? And amongst those stupid pesky laws are not threatening to torcher and or kill prisoners?
But you know, following the law is so “pc”! It’s gone too far I tells ya’!
America and later Israel also executed several for war crimes. The attempted kidnapping and selling of 40k people might qualify…
Oh almost forgot assault, attempted homicide, use of a deadly weapon. Nah send me home no worries, I’m sure they learned their lesson.
Okay … lets try and tackle this from a different angle.
The government of Avalon is not currently recognized by the Titan Empire. As far as the Empire is concerned, Avalon, and everything on it, and every human on it, are the legal property of Pryvani and have no rights.
These Titans however are citizens of the Empire, and protected under all of the rights that the Empire affords its citizens. What that means is that basically Avalon has no jurisdiction under which to punish these people. So even if the humans decided to take on the massive, nigh impossible burden of capturing these Titans, trying them in a court of law, and either imprisoning them or executing them, they have no right to do in the eyes of the Empire.
This also creates even more problems because if these four Titans just disappear, eventually someone is going to come looking for them and track them to Avalon. There they either discover four imprisoned Titans or four dead Titans on a moon owned by Pryvani making her responsible for their fate. Even if it is discovered that these four were criminals trying to steal Pryvani’s property, Pryvani has no right to kill these people (especially since the Titan Empire doesn’t even have the death penalty) or keep them imprisoned on her planet.
This means Pryvani could be sent to jail, control of her company turned over to unscrupulous individuals, and Avalon confiscated and sold off to someone that the humans can only pray to their nonexistent goddess will give the same freedom Pryvani did. All of this just because they wanted to make an example of four inconsequential and incompetent Titans, three of whom were more then happy to just leave and never come back, which is all the humans really wanted in the first place.
Genguidanos;
The story/conflict is not over. They are NOT defeated. They have simply retreated. You can think of this as just the first battle. Just wait (I haven’t read the newest installment) they are going to have another go at the Avalonians. And even if they leave without taking any hostages/food they and others like them will come back again and again and again and again…
It will be ‘over’ when the Titans change their mindset.
The thinking is faulty and dangerous. Great for the university crowd who lives in a fantasy bubble. Catastrophic in reality.
You have to consider the culture the history the political setup of your adversary etc…You haven’t thought this through dude….
Dude;
I understand you are worked up. I wish you actually read what I wrote.. Just a few more points;
So even if the humans decided to take on the massive, nigh impossible burden of capturing these Titans, ”
They already have captured them and have and the ability to hold them. Its a logistics issue at this point.
“This also creates even more problems because if these four Titans just disappear, eventually someone is going to come looking for them and track them to Avalon. There they either discover four imprisoned Titans or four dead Titans on a moon owned by Pryvani making her responsible for their fate.”
No not disappear, killed by the Avalonians in self defense. They have a right to defend themselves? Yes? No? Probably won’t get to that point so it may be that they are returned or just go home..And as for Pryvani responsible for them? Seriously? Four raiders who trespass on her property who tried to steal and kill her property (legally at this point) and she is the one at fault? Thats fucked up. If anything she has a right to defend her property. Is that not ok with you? So defending herself and her property might be offensive to uhh…someone 🙂
And not imprisoned. Hold and interrogate get information and then let go (yeah I’ll even throw in repairing their ships, some tea and cupcakes as well, why not) But that wouldn’t be ‘nice’ and HOLY SHIT! they have to worry about some imagined future potential (unlikely) consequence of defending themselves. Fuck, at this point just give up either kill themselves or offer a certain percentage of their population so as not to ‘offend’ the people who are attacking them.
I want to know how are they going to be trussed up and carted anywhere, it’s like saying we can easily cart a skyscraper anywhere. Either you incapacitate them removing the gravitics or kill them, either way it becomes a logistical nightmare in moving them, or you have incapacitate them in away that allows them some degree of mobility which seems stupidly dangerous.
Avalon, as a whole, doesn’t have dedicated Titan security beyond Rixie (whether that’s a mistake or not I leave to you) and with Palentine it’s worse since they’re a good distance from the main titan compound and have the added hindrance of the the high gravity. Unless Rixie is on call all day (when in reality she’s not even always on the moon) you’d run the risk of actually handing prisoners over to less capable Titans than the Jacks.
Though now I’m imagining a chore wheel up at Tayas Mons that includes body disposal….
The writers aren’t strictly speaking profesionnals. All of this was made more or less from thin air; they’re going to run into these inconsistencies every now and again XD
They ‘magically’ went from a European medieval society technologically wise, to a western late 20th century in a scant 72 years. They could figure something out. Still can truss them up and call in the empire’s peacekeepers. If that is possible
But you have a point in the logistics aspect. At the very least I would still want to know why they were there, the intent and all the details. Don;t have to be mean about it. (Oh god no) Give em’ a drink filled with truth serum, let them babble, record the babbling. Its nicer that way. I still have a problem helping them to repair their ship. They could capture or kill anyone who tries to help them
Furthermore they are criminally trespassing and they have jurisdiction (of sorts). If they (the raiders) change their minds (break their word) and tried to make another go at them. Then they should just kill them…Holy shit, I know all hell will break loose and life will end as they know it. But I guess they could be nice about it or PC or (fill in blank) The important thing is, is that they will think highly of them, while they are letting them kill, kidnap, murder etc.
Oh, I have no they would be doubt they’d kill them if they tried again. They aren’t letting them go out of the kindness of their hearts. They are letting them go because…
1 it’s a logistics nightmare to hold them.
2 The titans are horribly outmatched to the point where the titans know it’s suicide to disobey.
And the big one that for some reason hasn’t been mentioned.
3 Nothing stops Pryvani, or any titan on Avalon, from reporting them to the peacekeepers the second they’re in orbit.
Typos, meant to say
‘oh I have no doubt they’d kill them if they tried again’
And here I was thinking this story was over right up till the end. I always have a hard time figuring out what terms like “actual” refer to. It looks like they aren’t involving the compound yet? I would imagine that at some point if the ship can’t or isn’t taking off, that even if they can technically handle the situation on their own, they would get the compound involved for custody and treatment.
Suppose you are the commander of platoon number one whose call sign on the radio is “Aardvark”. If I want something from platoon 1, I’m going to call you on the radio: “Aardvark, Aardvark from synp”. Now somebody answers: “synp, this is Aardvark. We read you”. Who is this? I don’t know. They’re obviously from platoon 1, because they used platoon 1’s call sign, but I don’t know who this is.
Some people within the platoon have special call signs and might use them to identify themselves. “Actual” means the commander. So if I get the answer “synp, this is Aardvark actual”, I know it’s actually you rather than some lackey you assigned to monitor the radio.
Not sure what Margu’s got planned at this point, suicide by human maybe? Might be preferable to what the insectoids could do to him.
He sure as hell isn’t going to manage a collection by himself, that battle was a richly deserved curbstomp.
This is good. They are very organized.
Smart move. They’ll remember if a human saves their lives.